In this episode, we talk about how to find “your people”, the type of people that have the potential to become friends.

Transcript

Announcer: Welcome to Tricky Fish! A conversation between a millennial daughter and her Gen X dad. Here’s your hosts, Rhiannon and Ian!

R: So, you went and got vaccinated right, like you have both vaccines?

I: I do have both of my Fauci Ouchies, yes.

R: I also have both of my vaccines. I got my second one last weekend, I think, from when we’re recording this. And with that, I was thinking about how I cannot wait for a dance floor and things like that. And I’m so excited for all of the self care things that have been withheld from me for the last year and a half. But with that also comes people. And so I thought I would share my method of “finding my people” that has worked every single time. I would say it has like a 50/50% success rate.

I: That’s like Sex Panther from Anchorman.

R: -laughs- Yeah, 60% of the time-

Both: -it works all the time. 

R: Yeah, I would say that that quote is pretty accurate for this as well.

I: You just said that it works all the time and now you’re telling me it works 50% of the time.

R: But here’s the thing is; it works because my objective is to find out one way or the other. Meaning, I get my answer no matter what. So it is effective, you will find out if yes, this person is one of your people, or no, this person is absolutely not one of your people. So like for me, it is 100% successful because I always get my answer right away. Like very fast.

I: Okay, when you say your people, you mean like for friends? 

R: Yeah. 

I: Okay. So you’re saying that this works 100% of the time, not 100% of time to make friends just 100% of time to know whether they’re potentially friends-

R: For sure.

I: or just not gonna work at all, is that what you’re saying? 

R: Yep. 

I: Okay.

R: And through devising the system, I would say that I personally have been satisfied with who I am speaking with, to eventually become a friend… 

I: Okay.

R: …via this avenue. So 60% of the time- 

Together: it works all of the time. -laughs-

R: Operation Sex Panther Friendship! 

I: -laughs- Nice.

R: But okay, so here’s the thing.

I: You know, we can’t call this episode Sex Panther because it’ll totally be… -laughs-

R: It could be SPF… Sex Panther Friendship! SPF 500! 

I: Woo woo! 

Both: -laughs-

R: This is called a brainstorming situation, or like a brainstorming session for anybody that is still listening…

I: -laughs-

R: Anyway, okay, so here’s what- there’s basic few things that you need. First, I need to disclaimer though. So this system does reveal to you very easily if they are your person or not. Now you have to be okay with rejection. So like, you have to be okay with the possibility that this might not result in a friendship. Like you have to be totally uncommitted to the outcome, just like 100%, I’m going to just do this and I’m going to be chill either way. Either we will be friends, or we won’t be friends, right?

I: Right

R: Usually, it’s a self solving problem. So next step, pick a random trivia fact that you find interesting. It could be anything. Now for me, I used to watch a lot of Animal Planet when I was younger and I remembered watching a documentary about this eel. Which now that I just looked it up on Google, it’s called a hagfish. And apparently lives in Oregon, or at least that’s where something came up on Google. It was saying that like it was off the coast of Oregon, 

I: Right. 

R: Originally, I remember seeing a tropical background. So I thought it was like the Caribbean was where I saw it. So the tiktok I made was definitely wrong. But anyway, so the fact is, that the hagfish produces slime as a defense mechanism- up to three bathtubs of slime.

I: I think I’ve heard something about this.

R: Which I’m pretty sure I brought this up. This might be in another episode where I’ve like brought it up casually, because I think it’s so interesting. Right? 

I: Right. 

R: So I like the fact that there’s this creature that exists in the ocean that makes slime as a response to being touched if it doesn’t want to be. Like imagine being in the grocery store and somebody gets too close. And you’re like, ‘I’m so over this.’ So you just created three bathtubs of slime in the middle of the cereal aisle. Like how inconvenient is that for everyone else? 

I: Clean up on aisle three? 

R: Yes! It’s like- it’s immediately their problem that they invaded your space and I love that, right. 

I: Okay. 

R: So, I picked that fact. Now where this came from, I actually did it in the wild and then later thought back on it and was like, ‘I am on to something here’ and then I tested it-

I: When you say the wild, what do you mean? 

R: I will tell in just a sec, and then I continue to test this theory on several other instances before confidently coming forward with this information today. That being said, the stage is November 2019. I’m in a bar in Olympia, called Cryptatropa; so it’s like a gothy bar. 

I: Mhm.

R: Super awesome. I love the vibe there. I don’t know what they’re doing nowadays, because of COVID. But at the time, they were great. 

I: Sure. 

R: And I’m standing in line, I’m like, I’m having a girls night with my femme energy friends. And I’m in line at the bathroom by myself and this guy is talking to me about the weather. And I can’t do small talk. It physically pains me. I want to smash my own face in when someone small talks with me. 

I: I feel that in my soul.

R: So I’m just like, I don’t want it. And I’m trying to be nice, because I’m still like, I still want to be a kind person. I don’t want to be an asshole. 

I: Well sure.

R: And we’re passing the time, we’re both standing here waiting for the bathroom, like okay. But here’s the thing, though; this person-

I: Wait, so you guys weren’t in the bathroom, you were waiting for the bathroom?

R: Correct. Like we were both in line, so like we were obligated to be standing next to each other for an unknown amount of time. 

I: Gotcha. 

R: So I’m at least trying to be civil and like, be kind, right? And so he’s just like, ‘man, the weather is so crazy.’ And it’s November in the Pacific Northwest. It’s cold, and it’s wet. Like, what else is there? And he just keeps talking about it being cold, though. Like, that’s all he’s saying to me is ‘It’s wild how cold it is outside. Like, it’s so cold outside, it’s wild.’ Like I don’t- I don’t understand why these couple sentences are where his brain was but that’s just all I kept saying to me. And so-

I: Was he under the influence? 

R: I mean, maybe; we’re in a bar so could be. But I looked at him. And I was like, ‘You know what, that is so wild. But you know, what is even more wild? (Insert actual knowledge here.) There’s a hagfish, which is an eel that creates up to three bath tubs of slime as a defense mechanism. How wild is that?’ And he looked at me for like five seconds, blinked and then walked away. 

I: -laughs-

R: So what happened in that scenario is that I told this person, a fact that I personally find exciting as he’s telling me something he thought was exciting, you know, the weather. I’m just dropping this bit of knowledge and then he then made the decision to see himself out when he realized that he and I were not compatible.

I: You know, somewhere, there’s a guy that has a story about standing in line for the bathroom. And-

R:Some random ass girl-

I: -about how ‘Yeah, I was like, hitting on this girl.’ 

R: She was so fucking weird. 

I: Yeah, she was so weird. She started talking about-

R: You’re in a goth bar and you’re talking to a goth girl and she talks to you about an eel producing slime, like that’s not that weird.

I: I kind of feel like if I was in a bar, and I was talking to a goth girl, she popped off with that.

R: That would have been totally- that would have been so cliche that you would have been annoyed. 

I: Yeah, I would be like, ‘Okay, that’s par for the course.’ 

R: Yeah. 

I: I would have been like, ‘Okay.’ 

R: Right. But- 

I: You’re definitely goth.

R: Exactly! Right?! Because I’m talking about weird shit. At least I wasn’t talking about murder. 

I: I mean, I’m guessing that Goth people talk about weird stuff. I’ve never been to a Goth scene.

R: We do, we do.

I: Do you? 

R: Oh, we do. I actually talked to a photographer today about doing a bloody photoshoot where I’m in a bathtub full of blood.

I: Not a bathtub full of eel slime.

R: Yeah. But admittedly, I don’t know which one would make more of a mess… Or be more of a problem. Because the blood would stain things. 

I: I feel like it would be dependant on-

R: The slime is a texture that I feel I would want to set myself on fire, if I touched it.

I: I feel like it would be dependent on whether a cop shows up. 

R: That too. 

I: -laughs-

R: But here’s the thing though, this interaction opened my eyes because I realized; hypothetically speaking, if that person was somebody I would actually be interested in talking to and being friends with or potentially dating and like sleeping with, they would have reacted to that being all excited to me and like, ‘whoa, that’s so dope. That’s so cool.’ Because I then later did this experiment where I would be talking to random ass people in line at the grocery store, or like at an ATM, or at the dispensary, or literally anywhere where I have to talk to somebody. And it’s gone on for like an extended period of time where I could work that into conversation. It has always immediately resulted if this person is one of my people immediately been “what no way that’s so cool. I had no idea” and then we’re having an actual genuine conversation about this random animal. And then what animal they think is cool. And then we’re adults talking about animals. We’re not wasting our time talking about the weather.

I: I feel like I couldn’t compete. If I’m standing in line, and there’s some woman who tells me about this fish. I feel like I got nothing. Like- 

R: I wanna say-

I: I feel like the only thing I could say is like, ‘Great Whites are cool.’

R: Right? And then I’d be like, ‘I totally agree.’ and then we would talk about sharks. Or if I respond and I can see where a person is like they’re receptive to it, but they don’t know how to respond, I’ll say something in lines along the lines of like, ‘personally, I think slime is gross as hell and I would hate to be caught in that. But that’s still a pretty dope defense mechanism, right?’ And then that opens up to like, an actual conversation that doesn’t necessarily have to be about that. 

I: So in that conversation, if that’s what happens, and the person says that I would get definitely engaged, because I’d be like, ‘Oh, no, cuz that’d be a heck of a good defense mechanism, because you’re standing in line and someone’s talking to you about stupid stuff. And you don’t want to talk to him, just to create the slime.’ 

R: Boom. And now we’re having a conversation. Casual. 

I: Oh, okay. 

R: Casual, chaotic conversation that is not intimate. That doesn’t require us to know each other, or to have like, any kind of familiarity in any way. But here, we are not wasting our time talking about the weather. 

I: Okay, that’s good. I’ll have to keep that in mind.

R: And if they’re not my people, he saw himself out! I literally- people have to say ‘no, thanks. I have a boyfriend’ to get that response. And all I did was tell him an animal fact.

I: Well, wait, wait, wait, wait. So you say this eel fish secretes the slime. And they’re like, ‘whoa, whoa, whoa, I’m taken.’

R: Well, no, no, that was a reference to like- sometimes, since I was in a bar I was assuming this guy was trying to hit on me and like, make small talk. 

I: Sure. 

R: And a lot of the time the only way that a guy will get the hint is if the girl says ‘No, thanks. I have a boyfriend.’ And then they’re like, ‘Oh okay’, and then they respect the boyfriend. Not her autonomy and her-

I: As a guy, I’m going to say it is compleeeetely ridiculous.

R: Yes, I agree. I totally agree.

I: If the girl’s not into you, just move the hell along- don’t be a dick.

R: That’s what I’m saying though, like people are afraid of failure, you know, but-

I: Embrace the failure. 

R: With this though, I just dropped a random animal fact and this guy immediately knew that I was going to be way too much for him to handle. I was so crazy that he’s just like not trying to deal with that bullshit. 

I: She knows Wikipedia.

R: I just straight up went right into the situation of like, I am a complicated human. Are you sure you want to do this? And he instantly knew we were not compatible. And he walked away. There was no, ‘okay, have a good night.’ Nothing he just left. And usually, if there’s no like, instant moving away from me, it’s ‘uh, oh, that’s cool. Have a good night.’ And then they leave. 

I: Okay. 

R: I don’t have to be an asshole. I don’t have to be rude or talk about my partners in order to get respect or be left alone. I literally just dropped some knowledge. 

I: I gotta say, I like that.

R: I either make a new friend, or people get out of my face.

I: See, I like the not being in a-whole part of it. Because I can be in a-hole if necessary. I would prefer not to be.

R: Yeah.

I: I like to consider myself a pretty laid back individual. So…

R: And you know what?

I: I’d like to stay laid back. Which by the way, I just got to say this. The older I’ve gotten and the more I’ve gained the appearance that I have; people can’t see what I look like at this point. But I was in the bathroom the other day, getting ready to go to bed so I’m brushing teeth and doing all that stuff, combing my hair. I look in a mirror and I realize like I’m practically The Big Lebowski. 

R: -laughs-

I: The Dude, I am practically The Dude.

R: I love it, though. 

I: I do. 

R: It was a movie we watched a lot when I was a kid. 

I: I love that movie, yeah.

R: I love- that’s one of those things, too, is I think you resonate with something when you’re younger and then it’s just aspiring to become that when you’re older. 

I: But I wonder-

R: I wanted to look like this Gothic, cool, Gothic Mythical ™, babe when I was a kid and now I do. But let’s say that you don’t feel comfortable using a weird fact, necessarily like mine, because I understand that it’s bold. It’s a weird thing to throw at people and I decided to ultimately stay that way because somebody once used the word ‘dynamic’ as a word to describe me. And they tried to use it to avoid insulting me by saying that I was like ‘too much’ or that I’m ‘too vibrant’ or ‘too loud’ or what have you. But I love it because it’s true; I am a dynamic person. I am very complicated to people that aren’t on the same wavelength, so to speak. So I feel like this being the fact that I throw at someone is very fitting. 

I: I can see that. 

R: Like you knowing me, that’s not a weird thing for me to say.

I: If you just randomly told me this- 

R: You’d be like, ‘Oh, cool. Wow.’ 

I: I would be ‘Oh, cool. That’s interesting.’

R: Yeah.

I: Absolutely.

R: And then we’d talk about animal facts. 

I: Right.

R: Because you were one of my people and- 

I: Well I’m your dad, so I would hope so. 

R: But like, let’s say like, let’s say you’re not that brave; let’s say you’re not as dynamic or eccentric as I am. I understand that they are all different volumes. Let’s just pick a random other fact like most Calico cats are female. 

I: Right. 

R: That’s a weird fact; like an entire race of cats, most of them, like more often than not, are female. How does the race continue on with most of them being female? Like, I understand that there’s technically males that can obviously carry on the genes, but like, most of them are girls. That’s crazy to me.

I: I think it’s because it’s a recessive gene.

R: Boom. Look at us talking about genetics, not the weather. 

I: True. 

R: So it could be literally anything, just a random fact. Because you’re, again, you’re coming at this where you’re giving somebody a topic to talk about, that doesn’t necessarily require a bunch of knowledge to know about something like you’re not info dumping about anime, or music or whatever. You’re just literally saying one thing and then giving this person time to react to it. And then they will either be like, ‘awe Yeah, I’m here for this conversation.’ And then all of a sudden, you’re neutral ground. You don’t have to worry about niceties and small talking bullshit. Or you can clearly see they’re not for you, and then continue on your way. Nobody is hurt, nobody’s investing a bunch of time into a friendship that isn’t working for them. And people can pretty soon figure that out. You’re good to go; rejection doesn’t sting as much because you’re not as invested.

I: Well, as far as rejection goes, nobody wants to be turned down. Nobody wants to feel like they’re not someone’s people. I don’t know what makes people react negatively to rejection. And I don’t want to say rejection doesn’t hurt-

R: I have an idea.

I: Because there’s been times I’ve been rejected that it’s kind of hurt. Although I’ve never treated that person poorly because of it. I’m just like, ‘Alright, whatever.’ Especially with somebody you have a crush on. 

R: Yeah. 

I: But- 

R: I have a theory. 

I: Okay, hold that thought. For me. I feel the way I approached rejection, they have just saved me plenty of drama. 

R: -laughs- Mhm.

I: I mean, they might have been cool people, no drama, but you know, maybe never know. And by me, just going ‘okay, well, they’ve probably just saved me a ton of drama and-’

-Noises from dog drinking water from a bowl-

R: Our producer, drinking…

I: Producer drinking on the job. Yeah. 

R: Thanks, Vader.

I: So, by for me, by looking at rejection as ‘Okay, they’ve probably saved me a ton of drama down the road’, 

R: Right. 

I: It makes it much easier for me to just accept it and move on. 

R: Mhm.

I: Although I’ve never, I have literally never been rejected, and acted a fool over it. And I don’t understand why people would do that, but whatever.

R: I mean, emotions are complicated. That’s usually passion is usually what makes people do stupid things. You know, to quote Megara, ‘people do stupid things when they’re in love’, you know. But my theory, actually- perfect example. There was this group of kids I went to school with that, for all intensive purposes we should have been really good friends. We were all into the same weird alternative emo stuff, like aesthetically speaking, across the surface, I should have been able to fit into that group of people, no fucking problem. But for whatever reason, they all hated me. I had no idea why, for years, even into adulthood, I had no idea. And then something changed and I was around them a little bit more, like in adulthood and I realized that literally, none of them are people I really wanted to be around or liked anything about them. And so that’s when it occurred to me that when we experience a rejection, we automatically assume that it’s a downfall on our part. That rejection is a symbol of us not possessing something, or being undesirable. And so instead of looking at it as a, ‘there’s a whole other person on the other side of this that I know nothing about that made this decision.’ It’s ‘they don’t like me, because of me.’ 

I: When I was younger, like much, much younger, long before you ever came on the scene, rejection was hard for me. I still never treated anybody poorly because of it. But I did take it and go, ‘Well, what’s wrong with me? Why-’

R: Yeah; took it personally.

I: Why didn’t they want to be my friend? Why didn’t they want to go on a date, whatever. And, honestly, it was somebody didn’t reject me and they ended up causing a lot of drama down the road. And that’s where it came later. It’s like, okay, well.

R: Mhm.

I: I’ve probably saved myself. But you know, I also look at is I don’t want people to be my friends who don’t want to be my friends. I don’t want people to be in a relationship with me who don’t want to be in a relationship with me.

R: I actually thought of an analogy for this situation. So I’m not like a giant ice cream person. But every once in a while, especially if it’s sunny outside, I just want ice cream from like an ice cream parlor. 

I: Right. 

R: Talking like Baskin Robbins, Coldstone, that kind of thing. So every time I go though, I alternate between Rocky Road, Mint, or Cookies & Cream, or some kind of fruity sherbet. Usually like strawberry or orange, something like that, like I have my specific flavors that I rotate through every single time. Now, we can all agree ice cream is delicious. 

I: Absolutely.

R: We pretty much guarantee that like every ice cream is good. Like, objectively speaking, ice cream is just tasty, right? That being said- 

I: In general, yeah.

R: I’m never ever going to try all the other ones-

I: But there’s flavors out there that suck.

R: -because I’m satisfied with the five that I have found. You know what I mean? 

I: Right. 

R: So like, even though I have a whole bunch of options, there’s an entire store. An entire menu worth of things that I could pick, I have the same five that I rotate every time. And I have been happy with my experience every time because those are my flavors, I just vibe with them. There’s nothing inherently wrong with any of the other ones. 

I: Right.

R: I just personally like the others. And that’s honestly how we have to view human interactions; where we are each ice cream flavors. Some people are gonna jive with us, some people aren’t and that’s just okay. Like that, that just has to be something that we accept.

I: Right. 

R: Because at the end of the day, who has energy to actually actively dislike everyone, except for their friends? Literally no one, right. 

I: Well…

R: So like when you’re walking down the street-

I: If you don’t have any hobbies or things you want to do, you probably have a lot of time.

R: Well, yeah, but at that point, trolling on the internet becomes your hobby.

I: True, I guess. 

R: -laughs-

I: Okay, so let me use this to try to figure out who your people are. 

R: Yeah. 

I: So there are people out there, some of them might actually be listening to this episode, that they have no friends; they’ve been unsuccessful at making friends. How would this work for them? 

R: Well, first, I want to ask for the people that are hearing this and being like, ‘but it’s so hard to make friends. I don’t know how to make friends.’ My first question is, are you putting yourself in environments that would make you open to talking to new people? And I don’t mean the internet. Because on the internet, anyone can hide behind any avatar, any photo, there’s an entire show called catfishing, you guys. Like we all know how this is. But more importantly than that, even if the person is being honest with their face, it is so easy to be manipulated electronically. 

I: Sure.

R: Like people, it’s so easy, so easy. I’ve heard about people who have like 16 or 17 online relationships that they get money from, that the other people don’t know about; they just keep notes of what they say to each person and progress through the same timelines. So they essentially repeat the same relationship with several people over the internet. How fucked is that? 

I: Incredibly so. 

R: Right. So like, while yes, I’m not discrediting long distance relationships, or online friendships by any means. I have several long distance friends that I still have that I met when I was like 13, on Myyearbook. So like, I absolutely agree, they’re still valid. But if that’s the only connection that you’re opening yourself up for, you’re always going to get bad people too. Which you can regardless but I mean, it’s really really easy to be deceived on the internet. Versus in person, when you’re having this face to face conversation it might be kind of nerve wracking, because you’re in person, but you’re also getting their authentic reaction in the moment. So like, they’re seeing your authentic reaction and you’re seeing theirs. There’s no hiding behind the screen, no carefully composed, carefully placed emojis; it’s a genuine conversation. And you get those vibes way faster, way easier, your intuition can kick in and you can be like ‘awe this is a terrible person’ or ‘I’m feeling this vibe’, you know? But that being said, if you’re not putting yourself in situations to meet new people, that right there is the very first place I would start. And what I have done is… I’ve kept track of the pet store that I like, there’s a couple record stores, there’s the library, the tattoo parlor; just things that I naturally would enjoy being at or dealing with or interacting with. Because that’s an activity I care about and I find joy in so naturally, it’s going to attract other people that are also into that same thing. 

I: Right. 

R: And it’ll make it easier for me to find those kinds of connections.

I: Well it definitely helps to get out and have things to do. So even if you don’t meet anybody and become friends through it, you’re still- Well, there’s two things, two components to it. One is you’re still getting out, you’re still doing things.

R: Mhm.

I: You’re still putting yourself into social situations, which opens you up for that. 

R: Yep. 

I: The second thing is that by going out and getting hobbies and stuff like that, you become an interesting person. I shouldn’t say you become-

R: You discover who you are. That’s the whole thing is that through pursuing things that make you happy, you discover more aspects of yourself, and you become more sure of yourself.

I: -assuming that your aim is to be authentically you. And not- 

R: That’s mine. 

I: -the person who’s like, yeah, eight different things and getting money and- 

R: Yeah.

I: -catfishing the crap out of people. But I know for me, I go and I do things and there’s things I’m involved in that are solo. Like for example, guitar lessons; it’s me and my guitar teacher. And there are other things that I do, some social groups that are built more around like a shared activity. Like for example, not so much now with the pandemic but pre-pandemic, I’m sure once the stuff starts kind of ironing itself out, people start getting together in person. Like there’s been writer groups that I’ve been a part of, that you go and you talk about writing, and you share what you’ve written, and you do stuff like that, kind of encouragement.

R: Yeah.

I: And I may not go to those with the intention of making friends. I may just be- like, I like my guitar teacher. I just don’t see myself being friends with them outside of this.

R: Which is fine.

I: Yeah, which is fine, it’s okay. But I’m choosing to pursue those not because I want to make friends, not because that’s not my ultimate goal is to make friends or to find a girlfriend or whatever. Those are things that I’m interested in doing for myself. 

R: Yeah. 

I: So I feel like one thing I’ve noticed is that when people have asked about the things that I do, and I say, ‘oh, yeah, I’m doing a podcast with my daughter’, or ‘I’m taking guitar lessons’, they want to know more and you can talk to them about that. But one, it makes me look like a more interesting person that I have a life. I’m not just sitting at home trolling the internet. 

R: -laughs- Yeah. 

I: But that is also a means of being able to have that conversation because you can just talk about that without necessarily being friends.

R: Yeah, like I’ve mentioned the mosquito episode to six or seven people since we’ve recorded. Even today, I even brought it up at a photo shoot I did today about how much I hate mosquitoes. -laughs-

I: So if you’re just listening to this, listening to us for the first time with this episode, there is a previous episode where we talk about mosquitoes and you can actually go listen to that and you can use the mosquito information in that- 

R: Yeah! That could be your fun fact.

I: -as a fun fact, yeah.

R: Especially- that would be a really good fun fact, if you are really drawn to nature. So if you started going on more nature walks or trying to find nature walk hiking groups or something, then that is a really casual icebreaker. I’m not going to tell you but there are a lot of really good facts you should listen to in that episode that you could use because you’re in nature, you’re gonna have mosquitoes, everyone hates mosquitoes. 

I: For sure. 

R: It’s perfect. But- 

I: It is the episode about saving the world. That’s- 

R: Yeah, solving some of the world’s problems with- 

I: Solving the world’s problems, right. So for me, I’m just saying that if you’re somebody who’s having trouble make friends- 

R: Yeah, but-

I: -you want to go out to those you want to get. So you want to put yourself into situations where you have the opportunity to meet people. 

R: Yeah.

I: But I’m also suggesting that you do things that are interesting to you. 

R: Especially because if you think about, think about friends like thrifting where anybody that actually- I’m not sure if this applies to normal stores that have like high demand, low production or something like that, but with thrifting there’s this magical thing where if you are looking for something, you will never find it. If you are actively going to the store with the intention of getting this one thing you will not find it there. It does not exist in that thrift world. And what I mean by that is Like recently I got a desk table for doing homework in bed. 

I: Right. 

R: Two, three months, Paul and I went to every Goodwill, Value Village, Thrifting Hands; like any thrift store we could find in like a 30 mile radius for months, couldn’t find one because we wanted to get one for Scar. 

I: Right.

R: We went in one day and I was like, ‘You know what, I’m not even expecting to find it anymore. I’m so over it. If we find it, we find it. If not, okay.’ Now we find them all over the place. Now that we have several, we finally found some, now I find them all over the place all the time! Like why, why? Why? But also if you’re willing to put the time in and actually genuinely look, you can find some really good gems. And so with this analogy that I’m making- I got a little distracted with my tangent and I apologize. But with this, friends are like that; where if you go into a situation where you’re like, ‘I want to make a friend right now’, it’s very unlikely that you’re going to go in and make and find the genuine connection that you’re looking for. Because you’re trying to force it right then in there, and putting that pressure and expectation on it. So then at that point, you’re like, ‘Oh, well no, I failed, because I didn’t get the thing I wanted to do.’ So you’re walking into it with the expectation, might not be the best idea. But if you go into it, just thinking, like, ‘If I find a really cool bag that is normally $300 for $10, great. I’m gonna buy that bag.’ I’ve done that, it was awesome.

I: -laughs-

R: But that’s the whole thing, sometimes they don’t know what they have. And so you get like a super good deal. And those would be your best friend people where like, you walk in, you’re like ‘oh my god, I can’t believe this is here, but I’m gonna buy it before someone else does. Because this is such an amazing thing.’ Like, that’s how we feel about our best friends. 

I: We buy our friends? -laughs- 

R: No, we find them there. And we’re like, ‘How did I exist without you? How did I know life before you were in it?’ 

I: Be my friend, I will pay you, I’ll pay you money to be my friend.

R: I will pay 2% of what you normally cost to be my friend. 

Both: -laughs-

R: Thrifting.

I: So you’re low balling it, I got it.

R: I’m… very… economically responsible. No, I’m not. 

I: -laughs-

R: But I budget!

I: Sure. 

R: I friendship on a budget. 

I: -laughs-

R: You know what I mean. 

I: Right, right. 

R: You know, I feel like I got lost. I’m so sorry, you guys.

I: So here’s a question for you. So you’re in whatever situation, somebody is talking to you, you whip out the eel. 

R: Yeah, so like- 

I: Or the mosquito thing or whatever.

R: Hypothetically speaking, you use this in a situation that you want to encourage a friendship where or a relationship like let’s say you’re on a date, this tactic still works. So you could totally do that. However, how I discovered this hack was I was trying to get this person to go away, because he wouldn’t stop talking to me about fucking weather. And so knowing how dull of a conversationalist he is, very clearly from what he was giving me, I knew- I hoped this random complex bit of information would then be like, ‘no’, and then he would leave and it worked. Right?

I: Right.

R: So it depends on what situation you need, because sometimes you may want the other person to respond well. And in which case, like on a first date scenario, you could still drop the same exact fact, you don’t have to, you don’t even have to change it up.

I: See, if I was not wanting somebody to talk to me, I couldn’t imagine like whipping out some random fact. I just turn around and like, ‘I’ll stab you in the neck with a fork.’

R: You would never actually say that to a person in person. 

I: Are you sure? 

R: Yes. Because then somebody would tell the manager, especially if there was a Karen, someone who might punch you in the face, you know. And you also like 10 minutes ago just said that you want to be a kind person, you don’t want to be an asshole. 

I: Okay, you got me.

R: So like, you wouldn’t actually say that. That’s what I’m saying though, it’s like; if you want to remove the rudeness, and you want to remove the like, social small talk stigma where you can’t get into real conversation without that first, it just cuts right through it for both. So either you can have that conversation, or it will make them go away. 

I: I feel like in something like that you can actually memorize a few different facts. So you can get like, cool facts like the slime thing. 

R: Mhm.

I: But you can also get like kind of more gross facts. Like, you know, monkeys flinging poop when they’re pissed off.

R: You know, I actually just learned yesterday via a TikTok that was from a doctor that through the brain, I forget the part of it, but the way that the brain is stimulated, the most common fetish in the world is a foot fetish. Because with the way our brain is wired, our genitals are directly under the toes and the foot muscles.

I: Wait, where are you? Where are you? What kind of person are you? You sound like a mutant at that point? 

R: No. It’s like in the way that your brain is stimulated, like in the inside, like the folds of it. 

I: Mhm.

R: Those synapses are really close together.

I: Oh, I gotcha. Okay, like not the physical. 

R: Yeah, so it was just saying that like the wires are easily crossed at that point, because they’re so close together that the genitals are like all the way in like curve on top. And then right above it is toes and then feet and then above that is like legs and knees and then it comes out to the face and then something else on the outside. So like the way that the brain responds to the body stimulus, feet and toes are right next to genitals. So it makes perfect sense why feet fetishes would be the most common thing because they’re literally right there. So at that point- 

I: It just sounds like there’s something wrong with them, their wiring got crossed and that’s how they’re into feet.

R: I will share the TikTok that I found, I will track that down. And I will source this, I will, I will tweet this and make sure that people could see this for themselves, because I’m explaining it terribly. But the reason that I bring it up, though, is if we were to bring that fact up; like people that have that and are ashamed of it, can now know they don’t need to be because it’s science. Like it makes sense, scientifically speaking.

I: So if I were somebody that was in- I’m not into feet, but if someone were in- if I were in the feet, and someone was like, ‘Oh, that’s gross’, it’s like, ‘well, actually, because it’s right next to the genitals’ and

R: Right, and then you’re having this conversation of either that person who responded with ‘Wow, that’s gross’, that tells you they’re not your people. Or you’re having this conversation, and then how they respond to you bringing that new information, because I’m also one of those people that I love to learn. And I like talking to people about existential ideas and deep concepts. And so if someone were to come to me and bring me this new information, I’d be like, ‘Wow, psychologically speaking, that must be so- like such a relief to know that it’s not some weird thing that happened when you were a kid necessarily, it could have just been, your brain is wired that way. Like, it’s a little comforting.’ So then at that point, even though it’s not my thing, I’m still respecting whatever information was brought, we’re having a conversation and I’m still receptive to it.

I: I don’t think they’re like, ‘That’s gross’, that that necessarily counts them not as your people, because- 

R: In like the attitude. 

I: I think it’s gross, but I’m not going to kink shame somebody for what they are into. So it’s like if someone came up to me and said, ‘Yeah, I’m really into feet.’ I’d be like- 

R: ‘That’s interesting. That’s cool. Makes perfect sense. Scientifically speaking, those synapses are right next to the genitals in the brain. So it makes perfect sense that you feel that way.’

I: I know. Well, now I know that information. But prior to knowing that information, I probably would have been like, ‘Whew, that’s gross. But hey, you do you live your best life.’ Like, I wouldn’t want to make the person feel bad for being into feet, even though the concept for me is just like, oh, no, like, just keep the feet that way. Don’t come at me with it, I’m just no.

R: Now, I used to work for a podiatrist so I pay attention to how people take care of their feet. I don’t have any kind of feet fetish or anything, but I do love foot rubs because my heels hurt all the time. All the time. So that’s more of a love language for me, though; that’s part of the physical touch and acts of service because it physically makes me feel better.

I: See, I don’t want anybody touching my feet. It’s not because I’m ticklish because I’m not. But it’s just like, no, don’t. Don’t touch that. It’s like, whatever. But if there are any, is anybody listening to this that’s in the feet? Hey, good for you. 

R: -laughs-

I: Live your best life, not judging you. So you’re standing there, you whip out the random fun fact. 

R: Mhm.

I: And how do you take that from- Oh, like, and let’s assume the person has responded positively. How do you take it from? Here’s this random fun fact? ‘Oh, hey, that’s interesting’ to hear ‘You want to be friends?’

R: We should do a mock conversation. I hate roleplay, I hated doing it at work. But I feel like we should do roleplay. 

I: I’m down. 

R: Okay. So in this just have the intention of just continuing conversation. Like, that’s literally the only goal because in this interaction, if you’re asking me for an example of how it would go well, right? 

I: Right. 

R: So in that this person’s receptive to it, so like they’re actively engaged in the conversation, that’s your only goal, right? 

I: Mhm

R: So like, approach me and start a conversation and then I’ll give an example. But like, let me think of something. I’ll use the eel fact, it’s fine. Okay, go ahead.

I: You want me to start it? 

R: Yeah. 

I: Wow. This weather is really cold.

R: Yeah, I personally prefer it to be a little bit warmer. How do you feel about it?

I: I don’t know. Like, it’s just this cold weather. It’s kind of getting to me. 

R: -laughs-

I: I like it a little warmer too. Sure.

R: Well, you know, what’s really cool is like and in this really warm place like in the Caribbean, there’s this eel fish that produces slime as a defense mechanism of up to three bathtubs. So like imagine you’re just standing there and you accidentally just like bump into this eel you’re like, ‘oh, sorry, bro.’ And it just creates slime all around your feet, just trying to enjoy the sunshine, you know.

I: Wow. So he’s ruining my kicks. 

R: Yeah. Well, I mean, why are you wearing shoes in the ocean? In the Caribbean ocean?

I: Because, like they have dive booties.

R: I mean, that’s true. Also, maybe some like Captain Jack cosplay situation. 

I: Yeah, maybe I’m playing Captain Jack Sparrow and I fallen in the water.

R: Yeah, that would actually be really fun. We should do that sometime! Like, we want to like link up on Instagram or like Snapchat or something. And then we can totally coordinate a cosplay like that, I’d be so down. 

I: You want to cosplay pirates? 

R: Yeah. 

I: That’d be awesome. 

R: Fuck yeah.

I: All right.

R: I have this idea. I have this outfit. We could do this. And this. Oh, and we can also do this here. This is where I would have more information about the thing, but like, you see how that was so easy.

I: Alright, let’s exchange deets. 

R: Yeah. 

I: Nice. 

R: Or, like, let’s say that this is a casual thing, you’re like in line at the coffee shop and you have to leave, then leaving is the best thing to use is because you’re like, ‘I really liked talking to you. And I would love to talk to you again in the future. Are you cool with switching numbers or something so we can meet up and actually, like, hang out sometime?’ That’s literally all you gotta say.

I: Okay. Okay, so that’s for friends, whatever you’re trying to, like, get a person’s number.

R: No, that’s what I’m saying. I’ve approached people like that with the same thing of like ‘I’ve really enjoyed talking to you. Do you want to switch numbers so we can actually, like hang out sometime?’ It’s- 

I: okay.

R: -totally straight forward.

I: You know I’m gonna have to put this into play. So I can test this.

R: By all means, please do all the science experiments. We can do a follow up episode. If anybody does this, please, please let me know. Either at me on something on social media or Twitter, or whatever, I just want to know how it works for other people.

I: Oh, yeah. If you take this and you know, whatever your whatever the results are, let us know because I-

R: Please be safe. 

I: Yes, do please be safe. Don’t put yourself in any situation that’s going to get you hurt or you know, hurt someone else. It’s always about being the best possible person. If somebody rejects you, just take it in stride. It’s not you- 

R: Just remember, it’s an ice cream parlor; there’s

I: might not just be their-

R: -nothing wrong with your flavor, you just might not be their palate. 

I: Yeah. 

R: And that’s okay. It’s totally okay.

I: So have you talked about this to anybody else?

R: I made a TikTok about it a couple of days ago, because somebody else commented on something saying that their therapist told them that they should try to make more friends. And they’re like, ‘how do I do that? How do I make more friends, though?’ And so I made like, quick, informational, like two part TikToks. Like yesterday, a day before yesterday, but otherwise, no.

I: Okay, so it’d be interesting to see. Now, I will say that as a kid, it was much easier to make a friend, because you would have the kid out there. And maybe he’s playing with the Tonka Trucks- 

R: Several reasons. 

I: – or the Barbies, or whatever. And you’re just like, hey, cool. And like you just go play with the stuff. And then yeah, you’re playing. But as adults, we don’t have- first of all, you just can’t walk up to some dude and start playing Tonka Trucks. 

R: Wanna know why?

I: Why?

R: So the problem with this is for one, when you’re a child, you don’t care about status. So it doesn’t matter what somebody can do for you or your image or bring to your life, which none of us plan that that’s just naturally a ‘what would I look like being seen in public with this person?’ 

I: Sure. 

R: So as adults, there are people we just avoid based off of how they look, you know, like, unfortunately, the homeless… home displaced? 

I: Homeless. 

R: I don’t know how to say that. But, but people that look like they might live on the streets, some people avoid. People that look like they’re very much on drugs, people avoid. So naturally, we recognize social cues as a way of telling things like, this person would look good to be around, this person would look bad to be around, right. 

I: Right. 

R: And that is so ingrained in us that we do it without even thinking until we notice that we have that pattern of thought. And so that’s all a lot of times what happens is like, people ask, ‘Well, I’m not attracted to this person, but I think they’re hot, or like, I think they’re beautiful or whatever. But like, I’m not attracted to them.’ Well, okay, we can agree that they’re nice, but they’re not your type. Like, that’s okay.

I: You can still be friends with people without it being romantic.

R: Yeah, but no, but like most people that are monogamous, only pursue relationships for relationships. I can’t even tell you how many men have stopped being my friend when they realized I wasn’t going to sleep with them. 

I: Well, that’s sad. 

R: Yeah. Which is another reason why I hate monogamy; is like people will come into my life and they will seem actively interested in, they want to be here and like they’re here for it. And then when they realize that I’m not going to sleep with them, they just leave, which is fine. They are saving me the drama, as you say. 

I: No, yeah, absolutely. 

R: But I came to the harsh realization that people naturally only pursue that which they think will elevate their status and make them look better. You know, so as kids, we don’t care about that. We can just go on a playground and we’re on the playground, we’re just having a good day. It doesn’t matter what you’re wearing, you’re just playing on the playground. So as adults, so we have all these biases we have to peel back.

I: Well, not necessarily totally true. Because like if you’re wearing Nikes, and the kid over there is wearing Likes because they’re knockoff Nikes, right? Because the kid’s poor, you might misstreat that kid because they’re poor.

R: Yeah. But again, that is the process of learning those behaviors and those biases, that’s literally it being like breadcrumbed in our society. 

I: Gotcha. 

R: And the other thing being school gave us a place that we all had to be regardless, so we’re consistently around each other regularly. And so that’s why you see a lot of friendships will just crumble after people graduate high school, because now they have their own jobs. Now, they’re all going to their own colleges, whatever. They’re not naturally existing around each other, so now it requires a lot more effort to see each other and have that relationship.

I: Oh for sure. 

R: And so at one point, it was convenient and you saw these people every day. You had these classes, everyday.

I: Because you were already there, anyway.

R: You were already there, everyone was like it was an expectation. 

I: You know, it’s funny? 

R: It was weird if you weren’t at school.

I: You know, what’s funny is that as kids, we were totally willing to be friends with classmates. But as adults, it’s like, I don’t want to be friends with my co-workers.

R: Right?! 

Both: -laugh-

R: Because we learned that our school mates kind of sucked. 

I: -laughs-

R: So exactly that though. And so now here we are as adults were like we had these prejudices of ‘I want to make sure that whoever I’m seen with, looks good to be seen with’, but then also takes minimal effort to maintain those friendships or those relationships. 

I: Right

R: So I feel like that’s the big issue now is that we look back at childhood, like it was so easy to make friends back then. Yes, it was so easy, because we didn’t care how hot someone was. No one gave a damn about sex yet, we were six. It was so easy because we were in the same building for eight hours a day. 

I: Right. 

R: Like, naturally, that’s easy as hell to have a friendship for eight hours a day and then you go home, and then don’t deal with each other. But then you see each other again tomorrow, and you hang out in between classes, hang out at lunch, and hang out after school, and then you go home and you get that space. Whereas when you’re an adult like now, we have to schedule around work and kids and like social obligations and- 

I: Right.

R: – all these other things that now it takes a lot more energy and effort to maintain relationships.

I: So now it’s being a lot more picky with who you spend your time with? 

R: Yeah. 

I: Yeah, I gotcha. 

R: Yeah. 

I: All right, so some homework assignments for our listeners. 

R: I always do this! I always challenge our people.

I: No, it’s good. It’s good to challenge- you know what? Okay, before I finish what I was just gonna say, I just want to point something out. I just realized; you’re the one that challenges our listeners. 

R: -laughs-

I: I just talk about stuff. I’m like, ‘Whatever. Do whatever. Just don’t be a jerk.’ 

R: Yeah, but you brought cool clips. And you have quotes, and you have sources and you take notes. I just-

I: Yeah, I feel like I’m that part of your friendship thing that goes up to a point and it’s like, ‘don’t go beyond- I don’t want to talk to you. Just, here’s the information. Go for it. Do whatever you want with it. Just don’t involve me.’

R: -laughs- I get so invested. 

I: No, it’s good. I will say that that’s one of the things I absolutely love about you. Is that you do engage people and you do challenge people. So- 

R: Thank you. 

I: But not to get all lovey-dovey.

R: No, I love it, words of affirmation are my thing. 

I: Right. 

R: Thank you.

I: But no, the challenge is for our listeners: go out. Try this system that Rhiannon has laid out for us. I’m going to do the same and then report back.

R: So remember, the steps are: The first one is you have to accept that failure is equally possible. 

I: Rejection, we should say rejection.

R: Yes, rejection- not failure. We did the success episode before this, I’m so sorry. So keep in mind that rejection is possible, but it is also okay. 100% okay. 

I: Yes. 

R: If you don’t vibe, that’s okay. There’s nothing inherently wrong with either one of you. 

I: If you get rejected- 

R: You’re just not compatible ice cream flavors, and that’s fine.

I: If you get rejected, they’ve probably saved you a lot of drama down the road.

R: Okay, so that’s exactly it. So first one is: accept that failure is possible- or not failure, gosh. Accept that rejection is possible, but it’s also okay. Then pick one or several facts that you can easily remember because remember, this is going to be like you’re anxious and you’re talking to someone new and you don’t really know them and so you’re going to already be nervous. So pick a fact that you genuinely think is interesting and that will be easy for you to remember when you’re nervous. And then be open and put yourself in situations where you can be open to new connections, regardless of whether it’s platonic or romantic. Because once you start pursuing your interests, and making yourself open to things, that’s when things will start finding you.

I: I think that if you’re choosing facts that you find interesting, that’s also going to lead to a more authentic self; you’ll come across more authentic and not like coming across like it’s a pickup line.

R: Yeah. 

I: You know. 

R: And see, I- because of 2020, I have hit a part in my mentality, where I just don’t have the energy to be fake anymore.

I: I lost that energy decades ago.

R: I don’t mean fake as in like I’ve ever been a fake person. I just mean that I used to worry about what other people thought about me a lot. It used to be a pretty all consuming thing, where I was constantly worried about what people thought about me. And it never did anything good for me, it only ever stressed me out and made me feel like shit for no reason. And then I realize everyone is like that, everyone is so absorbed with what other people might think of them that they’re not even worried about other people. They’re just worried about what other people might think about them. And so like, I’m not even- I don’t even matter. I’m not even registering. I’m an NPC. So at that point, I can do whatever the fuck I want.

I: And here’s a real quick, I just want to give an example of how bad that is. Because if you are sitting in a room with me, I have Resting Bastard Face. 

R: -laughs-

I: And there have been times like, I can be lost in thought.

R: Yeah. 

I: Like, maybe I’m thinking about the book I’m writing or I’m thinking about something I gotta do. And people look at my face, and they just assume I’m mad at them. Or there’s something wrong. 

R: Yeah.

I: And it’s like, ‘did I do something wrong?’ What are you talking about?

R: What’s insane to me is I’ve gotten in one fight in my entire life. I did not hit back and I got the black eye. So like, this fight didn’t even go that well, right? 

I: Right. 

R: I still get people- like I graduated from high school a decade ago. I still get people who I knew in high school that- like and I say knew very loosely as in like, we went to school together.

I: Right. 

R: Not that we were like friends. That meet me now or talk to me now and interacting with me is like a totally neutral, kind human. And they’re like, ‘you’re so much nicer than I expected. You always look like you just beat the shit out of me if I bumped into you, or if I talk to you.’ And here I am thinking like I was isolated as fuck and needed a friend and my face was just scaring everybody away.

I: I’ve gotten that over the years to like, people will start talking to me. They’re like, ‘wow, you’re R: you’re really nice. Like I expected you to be mean.’ Like, what? Why? 

R: I just want to cuddle 

I: How do I look mean? 

R: I just want chocolate and to cuddle and fuzzy socks. But my face looks mad all the time. And I can’t do anything about it. 

I: Yeah. 

R: The scar on my eyebrow makes me look more super villainous. And I love that so that’s not going anywhere.

I: -laughs- sorry. -laughs-

R: No, I love it. It’s interesting, though, because people think that I shave into purpose because it’s a trend now- 

I: It is.

R: -to the same lines in your eyebrows. And I’m like, here I am. I’ve been trendy as fuck this whole time. And I had no idea and this one didn’t even take any effort, I just naturally am.

I: It is one of those stories that while I feel bad about what happened- 

R: Someday episode where I do like a dramatic retelling.

I: Yes. But it’s just funny. So real quick, just to let people know; she’s got a scar on her eyebrow. Because she took a doorknob to the face because the house that we moved into we moved in the summer. And it was the first rain of the season and the rain caused the door to stick. So she’s on one side trying to help me open it, I don’t know she’s on the other side because she’s five years old- she’s short. I don’t see it through the door window. 

R: I’ve never been short. I mean short in comparison. 

I: Yes. 

R: For my age group, I’ve always been tall.

I: Yes. But I’m saying comparatively with where you’re at on that door- 

R: Yeah. 

I: -I don’t see you through the door thing. So as you’re trying to pull it to help me carry these groceries in, I’m like slamming into it. And so I shoulder into it and like the door comes open. And the door handle was one of those that have the latch you push down- 

R: With your thumb. 

I: Right, not the door knob. And that latch part that you push down with your thumb, that’s what like slammed you-

R: Right in my eyebrow. 

I: In the eyebrow, yeah.

R: And I remember for Halloween that year, I was a Barbie cheerleader and I was salty AF that I had stitches in my face and had band aids on. I was really grumpy the whole time.

I: Yeah, and meanwhile I was helping you to be trendy. 

R: Thanks for that. 

I: Alright, so we’re gonna go ahead and end this. Please, by all means go out and try this. Keep yourself safe. Don’t put yourself in any bad situations. Be okay with rejection, it’s probably just somebody saving you drama down the road and let us know. Let us know if you have success, if you have failure. Again, you can reach out to us on Twitter.

R: I’m curious if the 60% of the time it works all of the time stat holds out for other people if that’s just my personal success rate. 

I: Yeah, absolutely. 

R: 60% of the time, it works all the time.

I: Oh, yeah. 

R: Sex Panther friendship.

I: Alright, well with that, have a week, 

R: Byyyyyye. 

I: This has been another episode of Tricky Fish. If you enjoyed what you heard and want more of it, you can follow us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts from. Please leave us a review, that really helps us out. You can find us at Tricky Fish Podcast.com as well as on Twitter at trickyfishpod.

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